1. Val thinks, "Perhaps it's impossible to wear an identity without becoming what you pretend to be." Explain what Val means by this and how this might apply to other characters in the story.
2. In Chapter 13, how has Ender changed?
3. Why does Ender want Peter to love him
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You know the saying, 'Quacks like a duck, Walks like a duck?' Well if it does everything like a duck, than it has got to be a duck, right?
ReplyDeleteI interpet Valentine's words like so: exactly as she says, "Perhaps it's impossible to wear an identity without becoming what you pretend to be." If you pretend to be something/one you aren't, eventually you will start to BECOME your character. If you pretend to be mean, eventually you will be mean without thinking, your personality will changes, becomes mean more. Pretend long enough and you start to believe what you are pretending. It's human nature, and kids do it best of all. And so this theory applies to other aspects, her opinions like with Val, or his actions like with Ender. We are what we ape, right? 'Monkey see, monkey do,' eh?
I agree with your whole " monkey see, monkey do" but Ender did Know how wrong it was to do any of these bad things. So, what I got from what your saying is that Ender will end up being mean on cruel by defending himself.
DeleteI agree Ender knew it was wrong, but did it anyway in self-defense of what was 'attacking' him at certain situations. I shouldn't have put Ender in there, because I don't think Ender is acting. With everything he did, he never 'acted' that way. It was his honest response to the situation presented.
DeleteI am in complete agreement with you. When you pretend to be something long enough, you start doing something that that thing would do without thinking about it.
DeleteThis applies even in REAL life, outside of books, too. This happens in war more than anything, they're there so long that it just turns them into monsters (well some people who don't have the correct mindset), along with a whole bunch of other occupations, so I agree with all of these guys.
Deletei agree! you definatley cant not pretend to be something with out eventually becomeing what your pretending
DeleteAnd another thing, does anyone else think that the fight with the 'buggers' was anti-climatic? There's this big build up, and than when it actually happens it takes barely two pages to say the plan, fight, conquer. I, personally, am kind of upset that the supposed to be biggest, most important fight is so disappointing.
ReplyDeleteI felt that we would have to wait a book or two for the fight, but it was just done in a game setting. I don't feel it was that anticlimactic, but I did feel. It was a little rushed, however the ending to the book was excellent so I'm glad there was a bit of a rush.
DeleteI think it's pathetic that Card wrote the book the way he did. I mean aside from the obvious- giant bugs that are going to take over earth from outer space- the character development was weak, and yes the ending was ridiculous. I mean I feel like the book totally lost it in the last few chapters. It's like Card got bored with the story and just bombed the whole ending.. Really, he set the book up to have so many possible outcomes, and the one he chose was just a big bunch of flowers.. With a book so dark, an ending like this one was just disappointing. That's just my personal opinion...
DeleteI think the ending was a good one, in it's own way. I just wish he had taken the time to explain things better. I was surprised to find out the game we was playing was legit, and that's good, but the fact that after that he didn't explainANYTHING had me really P.O.ed. Like, ok Valentine showed up and they went to a different planet to live on.... Nothing... Not anticlimactic per say, but definitely anti-resolutionary? (woot, made up word)
DeleteHahah, nice Alexei, and okay I agree, it just wasn't satisfying to me. Anti-resolute, as you said.
DeleteI didn't feel that way. I mean, the ending of a book is the most controversial part- someone's going to hate it (like Treva), someone's going to be unsure about how they feel (like Aleixei) and someone else is going to totally love it and base their lives on it, etc. But I actually liked the ending. It tied some things up, which is expected, but it left some loose endings for so the reader keeps thinking about the book. I was completely surprised by the ending, but I still had a sense of resolution. But I guess that's just proof that the same book can impact people in very different ways.
DeleteI agree and disagree on some points I mean the ending did throw me for a loop but it was somewhat satisfactory and it helped me understand everything alot better than before.
DeleteYou're right, Abigail. Because after reading the ending, I haven't really thought of it outside of these discussions. I'm not satisfied at all with the ending. But you and Danica are satisfied.
DeleteI think that Rose is right, Val is beginning to turn into her fictional character in a way that Peter is becoming annoyed and that their father is reading her article more than Peter's and saying that she is a better role model for the people of today's age and time period and he agrees with what she is saying in the forums. Now Peter is feeling like he is having to really put up with the real character since it seems like Val is turning into the character without even realizing it anymore
ReplyDeleteEnder wants Peter to love him because he wants to have someone other than Valentine love him. All he ever wanted was to have Peter love him. He just wanted to be normal like Peter. That's the reason why Peter hated Ender because Ender was better than him.
ReplyDeleteIts not that Ender is better than him, it's just that he is different. Keep in mind that Ender is a Third and that he is only wanting to try to fit in with his family and Peter is not realizing that all Ender wants is to be loved by all of his family, not just Val and his parents.
DeleteWell since Ender was different, that explains why way in the beginning Ender was scared to be like him, mean, it's not what he wanted but then you realize that he does just want to be... " normal" and probably felt he couldn't live up to standards to be with his family. Even if none were made
DeleteEnder wasn't better, he just thought that he was better because instead of taking him, they had his parents have a "third". So he thought he wasn't good enough. He wants Peter to love him, because he feels like Valentine is the only one that does.
DeleteI agree with Kacie. And I don't think it's really a matter of being 'better', but Ender associated Peter with violence and the one thing in his life that didn't work out- throughout the course of the book, everything unpleasant in his life was resolved. But Peter was the one thing he couldn't fix by fighting or being brilliant. And he wanted to be loved, Ender couldn't deal with loose ends- they frustrated him. So I think he wanted Peter's love, not out of a human need for compassion, but out of sheer frustration.
DeleteI partly agree with you Babette. Ender hates loose ends, and he hates not being able to solve problems. Since Peter is his brother, and is supposed to love him, this poses a problem. And since Ender can't solve this problem on his own, and needs someone else's cooperation, it's most likely more frustrating than anything he's ever had to overcome. But I also believe that even though Ender seems like an emotionless brick sometimes, he just wants to be normal. To have a family that loves him and cares about him and misses him. Because he knows that the only person in his family who really loves him is Valentine.
DeleteAlex, I totally disagree with you on one point. Ender doesn't want to be normal "like Peter". One reason being Peter isn't normal. Another reason being Ender really doesn't want to be anything like Peter. We've known this since the beginning of the book when he resents beating up Stilson because that's something Peter would've done.
In chapter thirteen, Ender changed a lot. From back in chapter one when he was very strategic and loving, he is now worn-out and depressed. He lost all hope in avoiding what he was becoming, which is in his mind a monster. He really is a mix of Peter and Valentine, that's for sure. He kills, but he mourns afterwards.
ReplyDeleteI feel really bad for Ender because he did not know of Bonzo's death. He had to find out on his own by remembering Bonzo's emotionless face. It's sad because Ender never meant to hurt anyone. But he was pushed to the point where he didn't care anymore, as long as the IF got their way.
I think he only cared about inflicting pain on others out of fear of becoming Peter. He never wanted to hurt anyone the way he was hurt, and the fact that he was doing it just to make the IF happy completely destroyed him. His biggest fear was having more in common with Peter than DNA. I disagree with you when you say that he was pushed to a point where he didn't care anymore, because in my opinion he progressively cared more and more as his connection with Peter grew stronger and festered.
DeleteI agree Abbie. The thing Ender fears most is becoming Peter because Peter caused so much pain emotionally and physically in Ender's life that he doesn't want to do the same to other people. Ender cares about people and that compassion grew throughout the story, so he felt horrible when he found out that he killed Bonzo and even Stilson for that matter. Ender didn't want to harm anyone, like he didn't want to harm the Buggers.
DeleteI think what Valentine means is that if you make up a character and pretend to be that character, it becomes a part of you whether you like it or not. If it was in you to create something, then it will always be a part of you.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree. Valentine followed Peter and became sometthing else, and so did Peter. What you make yourself is part of what you were all along. It always stays part of you even if you decided to change, that part of you wont completely go away
DeleteI also think that's what she meant. It explains why Peter became gentler while adapting to a persona following Valentine's views, and Valentine grew more violent evoking Peter's views. Pretending really changes someone. Maybe that's why they tell you to be yourself.
DeleteIt's interesting to me that Val had a persona that reflected Peter's view and vice versa for Peter. It's interesting not because they should have traded and had the personas that were most like themselves but because Ender was the "Third" of their family and he was created because neither Val or Peter were what the I.F. needed. They created Ender though to be the middle ground of Peter's anger and of Val's compassion. So it's interesting that Val and Peter's fake identities are the middle of both of their personalities, like Ender is.
DeleteI agree with all of you guys, but i never thought about it they way that Lisa just described it. And yes, it is very noticeable how Val changes the more she becomes her persona. But i think it is a good thing that Peter is becoming a better person from his persona. And Val isn't a terrible person herself now, she just has a little bit of a backbone that she didn't have at the beginning of the book.
DeleteEnder has changed because he now believes he has become some kind of killer. He feels out of control, because he has none. He is constantly played and messed with. He never has his own way, and he isn't treated fairly by other kids. He thinks he has no control over his killing. He feels responsible for the lives of the buggards and guilty for killing them all. He doesn't like what he has become, and again just out of control
ReplyDeleteI believe this as well. Its like the turned Ender into what he didn't want to be, his brother Peter. This whole Battle school turned him into a "killer as Ender thinks and is never treated fairly. Ender is isolated and hated. Ender seems brain washed! Poor boy just wants to be loved by his brother who loved no one.
DeleteI agree except for the fact that Peter loved no one. We all think he doesn't love anyone but in reality he does, deep, deep, very deep inside. Ender turns out to be insane in a way and he becomes something he never wanted to be but that doesn't mean he turned out to be his brother Peter, because Peter had never killed anyone. Battle School however did brainwash Ender and I don't like the way he turned out. All Ender ever wanted was to be loved by his brother and be left alone from all those others who tortured him and wouldn't leave him alone.
DeleteI think Ender has changed from a boy who's calm then becoming hopeless and a phys co killer. The killing part is because he's doing it to protect himself but he has gone way too far. If I were him I would probably do the same if I'm in danger but I wouldn't do the killing part so yeah..
ReplyDeleteI agree with Gabe that Ender was calm but has become a physco killer. Before he went to battle school he was quiet, now he has hurt many people physicaly.
DeleteWhen Val pretends to be someone else she becomes then... You cant pretent to be mean for very longs because you will eventualy become a mean person.
Peter and Ender are brothers of course he want them to love each other. But Ender has been pushed so much that he would most likely do whatever, because he really couldn't care.
It's like Ender can't control his actions anymore and becomes unaware of his surroundings and does things that he wishes he hadn't of done and becomes ashamed of his actions.
DeleteI think Ender want Peter to love him because of course they're both brothers. Even though for Peter's action and he seem like a evil and ruthless character. Ender has a kind heart and he loves Peter. Correct me if I'm wrong.
ReplyDeleteChapter 13, Ender really change in just three years he became so mature he doen't even sound like a nine year old after talking to Valentine.
ReplyDeleteChapter 14,a lot of things happen in chapter 13 like beating the buggers but the most shocking part was him killing them all I thought it was all just a game they play.
ReplyDeleteChapter 15, all the question Ender was looking for was all answered when the queen show it to him. the buggers even made a duplicate of the game he used to play. at the end Val and him search for the queens new world.
ReplyDeleteI think when the Ender found the queen egg, it was a sign that they were asking for Ender to give them a second chance, so they decided to put an egg at the end of a place only he would understand, and they thought he could save their race and help them live on I think he did it out of feeling guilty.
DeleteI think Ender changed not only a graduate from battle school but he now accepts that he is a killer now. Ender wants Peter to love him just like Val does. They are brothers and he wants to feel that he doesn't have to be afraid of him anymore.
ReplyDeleteThe reason Ender wants Peter to love him is because after all he has gone through at battle school, after how much he's changed, he wants the most heartless soul he knows to say "I love you." This will confirm that Ender is still human and isn't just a killer like Peter.
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DeleteI agree. Ender needs to know that battle school hasn't totally messed with his mind. He is tired of always being pushed around by people, he wants the fighting to stop. Like Luc said, Ender needs Peter to say "I love you," so Ender can understand that he is human and not a cold-hearted killer. He only did those things because he was trying to protect himself.
DeleteI agree with ya, Luc. He just wants feelings, he doesn't want to know that he isn't human-like anymore, so he's calling upon the "soul-less" person he knows to help him with that.
DeleteEnder knows he can defeat his enemies, and he can do that by understanding them better than anyone, but unlike Peter, when understands them he starts to love them. It is then painful for him to destroy them. While Peter crushes what stands in his way without a second thought, ender does not feel the same.
ReplyDeleteEnder has changed from a Scared helpless little boy who can't really stick up for himself without crying about it because of his brothers image. Ender now can destroy a planet full of buggers without crying. Ender learned to be a leader. He went from taking orders to giving them. Ender became a commander like bonzo where he yelled at the smallest of the army and callin him names that he was called himself.
ReplyDeleteI agree with matt on this one! The monitor had always helped him when he was growing up, but he learned to survive without it, making him a strong comander.
DeleteWhen valentine says this she means that if you create a fictional character and pretend to be the character you made up it kind of becomes part of you if you want it to or you don't want it to either way you have to deal with it. If you had the mind to create it then it is a part of your sick mind.
ReplyDeleteEnder has changed alot. He has done what no one else can do, He's went from being a monitored third who is constantly picked on by his older brother to the greatest commander ever.
ReplyDeleteI agree he has over come alot and now probably feels like he amounts to something instead of just being a stupid "thirdie"
DeleteEnder has changed drastically as almost as if he is emotionless but not. He uses emotions to create a better understanding of his opponent.
ReplyDeleteEnder wanted Peter to love him because he didn't want to feel the way he did anymore he didn't want to hate himself.
Ender wants peter to love him because he wanted to know that peter had a good side to him because he believed that he was turning into peter very slowly but he could notice it.
ReplyDeleteEnder wants Peter to love him, because he is tired of fighting. He is tired of hurting people, and being hurt. He is tired of always being pushed around by people, and the only way of getting out of it is pushing them back. And I believe that somewhere in Ender is still a little boy, who wants to live a normal life, and have a normal family who loves him and cares for him. Even though he says it would be boring, he knows that life would be much easier without having so much control over people, or believing that the end of the world could come if he didn't help out.
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DeleteI think that ender wants peter to love him because he dosn't want to fight any more and if he could get peter to love him then he could get any to love him and he wouldn't have to fight anybody if they loved him.
ReplyDeleteWhen valintine says perhaps it is possible to wear an identity without becoming what you pretended to be. I think that this could relate to valintine and peter when they where locke and demosthenes. it could also be talking about val when she wrote her letter to ender meaning that she was only pretending to work for the I.F. or it could relate to ender because he was only pretending to be like peter when he destroyed the buggers
ReplyDeleteWhat was the reason that they let Ender go back to earth before he was 16?
ReplyDeleteThey knew that was the only way for him to be prodded to go to command school. Otherwise he would have had no will whatsoever. He needed to see what he was saving to want to save it, being the kind soul he is.
DeleteVal means that you might do horrible things but that does not always make you a bad person. Sort of like Ender, he killed people, and yet he is the hero, the good guy. I also think that sometimes when we are forced to because of our situation we in a way put on a mask. In order to deal with a problem we sometimes have to do this we wish we didn't have to do.
ReplyDeleteEnder is not as loving as he was when he was younger. He still cares but he also has a primitive way of thinking. Everything has a trick to it now, before there was no trick it was just blind truth.
I think Ender wants Peter to love him because he doesn't want to fight him. He knows that they will always be enemies unless one of them, in this case peter, stops the fighting. Also who wouldn't want their brother to love them. Everyone wants to be friends with their siblings.
Valentine means to say and imply that it's impossible to be who you pretend to be without having to actually be in the shoes of your character. I think this relates to when Peter and her were their own anonymous writers in a way because they wrote things and published it and it got read by people all over the world. She got into her character and made him believable. She could also mean that people can't wear a "costume" or identity if they don't pretend to be who they are like when Ender pretends to be something or someone he's not when he fights the Buggers.
ReplyDelete"Perhaps it's impossible to wear an identity without becoming what you pretend to be." people on the internet today are more open about what they think and how that word there messages, they get use to it and then become it, look at activists on the internet, Anonymous for instance started with discussion boards like thins and now bring down CIA, NSA and other government sites an a weekly bases when they uncover human right violation perpetrated by the US government. Ender relies that he is just a tool for the people hight up on the chain, honestly he will never be the leader of the IF, but with always be there weapon. I dont think he truly want peter to love him, if he did it would prove that their is more peter in him.
ReplyDeleteWhy does ender want peter to love him? 4 years in an battle school rearranged the mind of this boy. After Ender realized why peter hated him he knew that this stupid conflict between them could end. He knew he was better. He actually felt a little sad for his brother. He doesn't fear his older brother anymore (sort of). He mostly just want's his love now.
ReplyDeleteI think that Ender wants peter to love him because he needs all the love he can get. Ender has been though alot of rough stuff during his time in the battle school. he has done things that he regrets miserably.
ReplyDeleteEnder wants Peter to love him because that would eliminate his biggest weakness, and being the strategist he is it would complete him. Although, in the end, this weakness is part of what makes him human, compassionate, and most of all a great leader. Peter's love is the one thing he could never achieve in his life.
ReplyDeleteI think what Val means is that if you pretend to be somebody your not for so long, you turn into the person your portraying. The same thing happened with Ender. He acted like he wasn't like Peter, but throughout the book he acts more and more like him.
ReplyDeleteEnder changes in chapter 13 in the sense that he kind of gives up. When Ender arrives on Earth, he doesn't want to leave, and when he talks to Val, he changes even more. While talking to Val, he didn't seem to care about anything she had to say, which was unusual for the two of them since they used to be so close. After Val leaves, Ender decides to further his education in space by thinking that he wants Val to stay alive and healthy on Earth, and the only way that could happen is if Ender returned to space to protect her.
Ender wants Peter to love him because he knows no matter what, that he would never win against him. Peter is Ender's biggest weakness, so by having him love Ender, it takes away the weakness Ender has.
In Chapter 13 Ender changes by seeing the bugger wars from a different perspective. He hates that there might be a possibility that the wars against the Bugger might all just be a misunderstanding. This thought eats away at Ender. But Ender is forced to put his feelings and thoughts behind him and continue to train and lead. He also changes by not really caring anymore. Ender is sick of his reality at battle school and command school. He doesn't care about winning or losing anymore. He just wants it all to be over.
ReplyDeleteEnder tries too win peters love but that will never happen because peter will always feel that ender was better then him because he got chose for battle school instead of him and i think that is something that peter will never overcome and ender just doesnt want to deal with another person hating him after all he has been through in battle school
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